Hello! We’re at Town Hall where people are streaming in for the North Carolina Department of Environmental Quality’s Division of Air Quality’s (DAQ) public hearing tomorrow at Chapel Hill Town Hall at 6pm to consider UNC’s request to modify its air quality permit to allow it to also burn engineered pellets in its boilers at the co-gen plant, which is located in Downtown Chapel Hill.
We’re being told if there’s more than 55 people signed up to speak, timing will be cut to 2.5 minutes – and if there’s more than 65 people, timing will be cut further. Stay tuned – the hearing starts shortly!
5:49 pm: There are definitely more than 65 people here. We are told this is being recorded but not livestreamed (?) and the audio but not the video will be posted. Here’s where you can file a public records request for NCDEQ to request the video.
5:55: A who’s who of local folks are here: We see county commissioners, town council members, Sen. Graig Meyer, and many, many UNC students, residents of all ages. It’s very nice to see so many people come out for this!
5:58 Watching people in the room read the liveblog that we are writing. Turn around! :waves: Starts shortly!
6: Sen. Graig Meyer is kicking things off. Happy to have people here. There are some rules to follow. They’re going to ask us to not clap or snap. That will affect the transcript. Meyer wants us all to give :jazz-hands:
We just gave jazz-hands for them moving the meeting from Hillsborough to Chapel Hill. (Hooray us!)
Meyer mentions that many have been meeting for a year to discuss what happens to the rail line and how it’s transformed into an opportunity in the future. (We have more on that work here.)
6:04: Hearing officer kicks things off. This room is PACKED. We are so happy. This is community at its finest. Thank you.
If you can’t make this meeting and want to give a comment, you can EMAIL [email protected] with the subject line “UNC.24A” or by leaving a voicemail at 919-707-8448.
6:07 Apologies in advance for any horrible typos. We’re doing this in real-time and may goof up. Room is full and overflow is filling.
Ok, we’re now getting a rundown on the permit. Much of that information is also here, if you’re reading along at home. And here’s more info on subpart-Db which the person has discussed.
Speakers up now:
- Represents herself. Works in Chapel Hill. Concerned about bridge created by using pelletized, engineered products as fuel source. Externalizes air quality impacts to other communities. Doesn’t focus on long-term solution that solves climate crisis. To continue to issue permits to a facility that really shouldn’t represent university’s energy future seems wrong. This site will have disparate impacts. The report did not feature mitigation factors. Encourages consideration of environmental justice consideration – and where the materials are sourced from.
- Representative from local chapter of Orange-Chatham Sierra Club. Also retired air quality policy analyst at EPA. Encourages rejection of application. We have a copy of those comments here. (Thanks for sending comments to [email protected] – we will post if you do!)
- Chapel Hill Town Council member and retired EPA employee for 3 decades. (It’s Melissa.) She is representing herself. Echos comments from Sierra Club. Wants to address community issues. Surrounding communities – historically Black neighborhoods – will be affected. UNC is at a turning point that mirrors the rest of the world. PFAS emissions would be unquantified and uncontrolled. Still waste material of unknown composition. Encourages DAQ to reject or UNC to withdraw. We have a copy of Melissa’s comments here
- Completed 41-year career at EPA as research scientist studying combustion and emissions. (Aside: Does everyone in Chapel Hill work at the EPA?) Needs to be due diligence in emissions in comprehensive way.
- Thanks Triangle Blog Blog and No Coal UNC. Quotes Kirk Ross for his work on this piece: https://triangleblogblog.com/2022/11/27/about-that-power-plant-on-cameron-avenue/. Her home has physically shaken from plant. Considering installing air monitors herself. Talking about health risks to microplastics. Failure to take this seriously will be an enormous tax for our community. Risks are real.
6. Senior attorney at SELC. Also a UNC alum. We have a PDF of the SELC comments here. Talks about closeness of Chapel Hill’s historically black neighborhoods. Recommends reaching out to Theo Nollert if you want to learn more about rail-trail efforts. (Theo is on town council.)
7. Also an attorney with SELC. Urges DAQ to reject application. Pellets are manufactured by company – can be comprised of enormous range. Pellets won’t remain consistent over time – can range as high as 49%. Says DAQ did not account for that. Unknown and unregulated harm. Talks about VOC. Doesn’t want community to breathe in these pollutants.
Email us your comments: [email protected] – we are happy to post them! OVERFLOW ROOM IS FULL.
8. Kirk Ross: Thanks for moving it closer to campus. Reporter who covered town government and plant, state legislative body. First thought: What’s in those pellets? Kirk’s piece on this is worth reading: https://carolinamercury.com/2024/09/12/burning-plastic-paper-no-solution-to-ending-coal-use/
Shouldn’t be in a downtown. 2018 PFAS assessment was inadequate. It’s 2025.
9. Resident of Chapel Hill. Lives near power plant. Raised children here. Talks about wood pellets and negative impacts for health.
10. Chapel Hill resident. Representing No Coal UNC – neighbors, students, non-profits who advocate clean energy. This will damage our community health, air quality, historic Black neighborhood near plant.
11. Retired toxicologist. The handout doesn’t have all of the pollutants, but some of the pollutants will go up and some will go down. Not all pollutants are equally toxic, nor due they have the same toxicology profile. His question is: Has a quantitative risk assessment been performed comparing pollutant profile for both of those sources of fuel?
12. Senior at UNC. Member of Lumbee tribe. Opposes test on Cameron Avenue. Irresponsible of UNC. The chemicals will be in our air and our water. Wants to think of both who lives here now and future generations. Encourages denial of permit.
Aside: These are the most thoughtful, well-researched comments. Thank you all.
13. Resident of Chapel Hill. Mother, grandmother, determined to live as long as she can to protect all of the people in the future. DAQ has responsibility to citizens of North Carolina. Wants to know how they are protecting if they allow UNC to produce toxic air pollution. Doesn’t want them to approve.
14. Lives three blocks from plant. Grandchildren live nearby. Plan is worse than coal. UNC is a world renowned institution – has the knowledge to do better.
15. Climate change researcher. Opposes. False solution that perpetuates existing problems. Burning waste pellets can be worse than coal, for some emissions. Short term bandaid without addressing root costs of problem.
16. Student at UNC – sophomore. Student leader many orgs. Urges rejection. When thinking about the plan, concerns with use of coal and use on surrounding communities. Wants us to look at name of street that this lays on – Cameron Ave. – slaveholders. Urgency of now. Wants us to read In the Shadow of Ivory Tower, about impacts of universities on communities.
17. Downtown native. Has degrees and background in air pollution health policy. Works at EPA. Speaking in personal capacity. Pretty technical comment – no ambient air standards exist for PFAS. PFAS are forever chemicals. While DAQ will require monitoring, we don’t have the methods to do this. No such thing as a small amount of PFAS.
18. Carrboro resident and ecologist. Wants to deny. Toured a co-gen plant in Copenhagen. Differences between us and them. OWASA will soon be spending a lot of money to remove PFAS – this will add more PFAS to our air and possibly drinking water.
19. Undergrad at UNC and also local. Studied PFAS in air. Says PFAS will land in soil, can affect indoor air. Further burden Chapel Hill’s water supplies. Filtration systems must be evaluated for particulate and gas-phase PFAS.
20. Environmental epidemiologist. Carrboro resident. Getting PhD. No Coal UNC coalition member. In research, studies air pollution on health. Concerned by permit modification for “hard to recycle items.” Historically Black community next to plant – environmental racism. Understudied fuel source perpetuates issue further. Plant is located by Libba Cotten bikeway and Cameron Ave where people walk and bike to campus. Burning near where people will be inhaling pollutants frequently.
21. Water researcher at UNC. UNC’s plan posts risks both known and yet to be quantified, both for workers at plant and members of community. Burning pellets will increase emissions of harmful pollutants. These are not hypothetical risks, they are well documented, they create developmental impairments.
22. Grew up in Chapel Hill and getting MSW at UNC. Grateful for very science-y community members who have spoken. Has concerns about UNC measuring own emissions. Environmenal racism and environmental justice issues. Hasn’t factored in getting pellets from Wisconsin in carbon emissions.
23. Former ESAB (environmental) board member in Chapel Hill and retired solar professional. Plant provides campus with steam. High temperature electric heat pumps are available to do this work. Says Princeton University is doing this.
24. Climate activist with Sunrise UNC. Speaking against permit because it perpetuates environmental injustice across Chapel Hill.
WE HAVE FOUND A LIVESTREAM: No longer active
25. Environmental professional, speaking in personal capacity. PFAS is only one of the chemicals in the air. Others will also be released. The model data considers chemicals one by one, and not in aggregate. Burden will be disproportionately on historically Black neighborhoods.
26. Chapel Hill resident. Lives by plant. Doesn’t consent to being poisoned by UNC. Doesn’t want percentage reductions – wants it to end. Needs to be talking about shutting it down. People need to be ready to organize and fight this.
27. Student at UNC. Member of Sunrise UNC. Opposed. Not what’s best for anyone in surrounding area.
28. Speaking for self. Wants to speak to those making decision: Remember that you matter. That your dignity, your honor matter. Do not let yourselves set it aside, because there’s pressure on you. Remember that you – whatever power you have – to please use it for those who will come after this, who will have to endure the results of what we decide. She says that they might find that they are not allowed to deny it – wants them to add that UNC is completely liable if it is approved. Wants them to add more research.
29. Chapel Hill resident. This is kicking can down the road. Using pellets is trading some pollution for others. Environmental justice issue. Reject proposal.
30. Chapel Hill resident. Lives four houses from plant, UNC public health grad. Talks about costs to remove PFAS in our community. Consulted Duke PFAS people – increased risks of cancer, developmental problems in children. Bio-accumulate in human body. Devastating long-term effects. Research shows that chronic low-dose exposure accumulates in body over time. “We are not the university’s guinea pigs.” We have the 1 public health school in the country. Let’s use it.
31. Resident. Not happy about this. Asking to deny.
32. Chapel Hill Town Council member. (It’s Camille!) Speaking on her own behalf. Sharing words from a neighbor who lives 100 yards from plant. OWASA is spending millions to clean up PFAS. Self-defeating to add more PFAS. Don’t know how pellets will be altered upon incineration. Appointing one-year trial is tantamount to approving indefinite use. We owe it to ourselves to course correct. Draws upon Quaker experience: We know more today than we did yesterday about PFAS. Worried about water.
33. Represents self. Numbered of speakers have called for better estimates of health studies. PFAS is a family of chemicals which makes it hard – many have not been studied. There’s no good way to estimate toxic effects. Research on PFAS exposure has been published by researchers at UNC.
34. Resident of Chapel Hill since 2001. Directs ecojustice coalition of churches across NC. First sustainability research associate at UNC. Wants to highlight 2004 – participated in UNC’s energy services symposium on how to transition off coal. No surprise that she’s shocked and saddened that UNC is proposing pathway away from coal – but it risks doing harm.
35. Organizing director of Sunrise at UNC. We know about South Boston, VA where this plant is currently disposing its waste. Burning pellets is only 12% less carbon than coal. There is so much more than we can do. As written, it’s disrespectful to communities, Black and Brown and low-income communities…who are disproportionately affected by institutions like the coal plant.”
36. Senior director of RTI water and environmental health group – works on PFAS with EPA. Here today as Chapel Hill resident. Proposal may underestimate PFAS. Down gradient impacts to students and low-income communities. We have a copy of Jennifer’s comments here
37. Campaign coordinator for Sunrise Durham. Climate crisis is here. UNC said it would be coal free.
38. Lives across street from plant. Doesn’t want to wait for UNC and Convergen to discover that they’ve poisoned him. Their reports contradict from Air Force and other reports from overseas. Every year, researchers discover new sources of PFAS.
39. Executive director of Haw River group. Speaking on behalf of impacted communities. Wants them to deny. Permit modification adds new threats. What goes up in the air stacks comes down in our drinking water supplies.
40. Former Chapel Hill Town Council member and pastor. (It’s Maria!) Wants to deny permit. Members of her church clock out and in by cogen plant – work in housekeeping, maintenance. Doesn’t want UNC to conduct an experiment with the air with breathe.
41. Lives down the street from plant. Was an air quality consultant. Worked on a lot of permit renewals and modifications. Has faith in permit process and people who approve permits. Seems to be okay with some of this? Wants to tighten up monitoring and the way the application is structured.
42. Thanks them for moving hearing – found out from Triangle Blog Blog list. Interesting in PFAS and VOCs. Has three kids. Thanks everyone for what they said re: science. Big concern for parents.
43. Medical student at UNC and divinity student at Duke. Alum of UNC. Resident of McCauley District. Sees coal in train. Loves Chapel Hill. Person who believes health is tied to air, water, food and all the things we intake in the world around us. Impressed by everyone who has showed up to advocate.
44. Environmental science major. Wants to reject permit due to insufficient benefits and risks. Says framing this as an improvement is misleading and continues to perpetuate injustices. Undermines climate action plan.
45. Sophomore at Duke and lifelong resident of NC. Deep concerns. Chosen method has risks that have been unaddressed in proposal.
With all of this well thought out and emphatic public comments, it is difficult for us to think they would actually consider this.
46. Student studying at UNC and Duke. Wants to deny. Risk/reward ratio doesn’t justify approval. Health impacts are unfavorable and uncertain. More robust PFAS testing is needed.
47. Student at UNC. Lives in Pine Knolls. Can see cogen plant from window. Concerns about what we breathe. Concerned about pollutants by burning coal and pellets. We can see past UNC’s sleight of hand. Talks about leadership at UNC. We do not want coal.
48. Resident of Person County. Appreciated other speakers. This request is coming when PFAS is highly scrutinized. Wants them to deny permits.
49. Member of Sunrise Durham – lives in UNC by Carrboro. Junior in high school. Very concerned about pellets.
The youth showing up tonight is impressive.
50. Resident of Carrboro for 32 years. Has been calling for the coal plant to be shut down for decades. Burning any kind of fuel is never going to be good. UNC is a premiere university. Proud alum. Wants university to take a different approach and he expects a lot more. Wants clean air and water.
51. Community Outreach Club at Carrboro High School leader. Grew up outside and cares about community. Cares about community she babysits. Cares about how it will affect surrounding communities.
52. Carrboro High School student. Member of outreach club. Talks about health risks and environmental racism. Tells them to do the right thing and make the right choice and avoid apocalypse together.
53. Resident of Orange County. Wants them to make right decisions for community. From Akron Ohio. Rubber community. Wants to think long-term.
54. Student at UNC. University’s purpose is to serve people of North Carolina. This permit modification doesn’t sound like that.
Thank you all for following the live blog. If you are a speaker, please email us your comments – [email protected]. Thank you for coming. This shows how powerful our community is. Thank you all!